Weber on Zundel, part 2

American Dissident Voices Broadcast of September 20, 2003: An interview with Mark Weber on the outrageous treatment of Ernst Zundel by three governments in the early 2000s

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KAS: It seems to me that free speech activists of all political persuasions would be up in arms over what has happened in the Zundel case. Have we made any inroads into the mainstream media with this case?

MW: That brings up a really interesting point. Quite a few supporters of Ernst Zundel’s rights have brought this case to the attention of Amnesty International and pleaded with them to support his civil rights. And Amnesty International has rejected that, contending that they don’t support those who promote ‘hate.’ Well, that’s a very elusive term. It’s an amazing thing that in the trials that took place, the ones that were in Canada — in fact, I was a witness in them, before this so-called Human Rights Tribunal, the presiding commissioner (he’s not really a judge) stated explicitly that truth is no defense in these matters. The truth of the thing is just irrelevant. And what it really amounts to, this charge of so-called ‘hate,’ is the what Jewish groups find offensive becomes criminal or becomes illegal. That’s just outrageous. A statement could even be true, but they don’t care. And that’s a very, very ominous thing. It points up how the Amnesty International organization operates in a kind of a ‘PC’ way. They’re careful not to publicly support the freedom of speech of a man who holds such Politically Incorrect views in our society.

KAS: I wonder if it’s possible to get a list of cases which Amnesty International has refused. I wonder how long that list is; and I wonder if there are any cases of Jewish ‘haters’ who have been refused their services.

MW: Well, Amnesty International declared that Nelson Mandela was not a political prisoner. They supported him even though he was actually imprisoned for his complicity in a terrorist bomb plot. But very few people know that. They just assume that Nelson Mandela had been imprisoned for the peaceful expression of his views. And that’s just not the case. The Mandela case points up that Amnesty International will bend its own principles for Politically Correct reasons when it suits them. And I think the Ernst Zundel case also points up that same thing.

KAS: It sounds like they’re worse than useless, then.

MW: Well, they at least do uphold a certain principle. But when any principle is applied selectively, then it’s not real justice.

KAS: Are there any prominent Canadians speaking up on the Zundel case?

MW: I alluded to this earlier. There’s a prominent Canadian journalist named Bill Dunphy. He’s a veteran investigative reporter and editor for the daily Hamilton Spectator, and he spent six years investigating Canada’s so-called “White supremacist movement.” He got to know Ernst Zundel personally. And although he has no sympathy for Zundel’s views, in a column he wrote in mid-May he was very critical of the whole case against Ernst Zundel. He said “Our government has seized and branded Ernst Zundel, stripped him of his human rights, tried him in secret and found him wanting, and will now hand him over to a foreign government anxious to throw him in jail. Zundel, who did this country a favor by wiping off the books our disgraceful ‘false news’ laws, has never once been convicted of a criminal offense in this country — never once found to have violated the hate crime laws that rest snugly around the throat of free expression in this country.” And he concluded, finally, that “the case by the Canadian government against Ernst Zundel is a shameful piece of dishonest, unreliable tripe.” And he’s not alone. There was a Canadian weekly newspaper called The Eye, a trendy giveaway paper that covers the arts especially, which said that “Declaring Zundel a terrorist now is not the result of any startling new information. It has to do with political pressure.” It condemned the case as well. The Times-Colonist newspaper in Victoria, British Columbia, in an editorial titled “Even Zundel Merits Fairness,” was very critical of the trumped-up case against him. Now those voices are rare in Canada, because it takes a particular kind of courage to speak up for the rights of someone who Jewish groups want to put in jail. And that’s a very important aspect of all of this. It points up the tremendous power and influence that Jewish groups have in Canada and in North America generally. Zundel would not be in jail today if Jewish groups did not want him there. That’s a point that needs to be stressed over and over. It’s unthinkable that any group has that kind of power. As I said, it takes a lot of courage, and it’s rare for people to speak up for the rights of Ernst Zundel when he’s been so hounded, harassed and vilified in the media as he has been.

KAS: Where is The Eye published?

MW: It’s a Toronto weekly paper. And the Times-Colonist, as I mentioned, ran an editorial stating that the case against Zundel is really nonsense. I mean, the idea that whatever Ernst Zundel has to say is going to bust apart Canadian society is just childish. If Canadian society is that fragile, it deserves to fall apart.

KAS: Well, there’s a level of hypocrisy there that we also see in political prosecutions in the United States. Clearly, no one believes that Ernst Zundel’s being free in Canada is going to cause Canadian society to fall apart. Even his strongest critics, though they may say that, clearly do not believe that. It’s a lie.

MW: Right. What Ernst Zundel wants to do is actually get out of Canada and live quietly in Tennessee. That would save everybody a whole lot of heartache and so forth. But, as I said, Canadian Jewish groups — the Canadian Jewish Congress, the League of Human Rights of B’nai B’rith (a inappropriately named counterpart of the ADL in this country), the Simon Wiesenthal Center — are all just demanding that Canadian authorities put Ernst on a plane and send him off to Germany and put him in jail there, where they hope no one will ever hear from him again.

KAS: It’s an exercise in Jewish power. Are we seeing more of this flexing of Jewish muscles, these exercises of Jewish power around the world these days?

MW: I think, Kevin, we’ve seen in just the last few weeks expressions of the flexing of this muscle, as you put it, and with such an arrogant overreach. It’s manifest in several things. There was a cartoonist in Australia who did some cartoons that were critical of Israel who was fired from his job. A book about the mistreatment of Palestinian youth under occupation was published in Britain, and Jewish groups in that country are trying to ban the book. But the most interesting case to me is the furor over Mel Gibson’s new film called The Passion. Mel Gibson has essentially taken the story of the suffering of Jesus during the last twelve hours of his life as portrayed in the gospels and made it into what is by all accounts a very moving film. But Jewish groups want it banned. They want it stopped. In effect, they want any film portrayal of the gospels banned. And this is just incredible. They claim, for example, that it’s wrong to portray Jews as being responsible for or playing a role in the death of Jesus in the movie or even in the gospels — even though, amazingly, the Jewish Talmud, this very prominent holy writing for strict Jews, boasts about and claims credit for the Jews in the death of Jesus. It’s amazing; the film hasn’t even been shown publicly and already Jewish groups are alleging that the film is stirring ‘anti-Semitism’ and ‘hatred.’ Well, what’s really stirring hostile feelings among many people isn’t what’s in the film, it’s what Jewish groups are doing to try to ban the film even before it is released publicly. One of the incredible things, as a friend of mine once said, is that Jewish groups act as if non-Jews have Jews on the brain as much as Jews do themselves. When Christians watch The Passion what they’re thinking of is the death and the suffering of Jesus. But when Jews see the film, all they can concentrate on is ‘what does it mean for Jews?’ The idea that Gentiles and Christians are so reckless and out of control that they’re going to go out and hurt Jews because of a depiction of what some Jews did to Jesus 2,000 years ago is just incredible. Another example of this recently was the whining and protesting of Israel’s government about the news coverage of the British Broadcasting Corporation, the BBC. BBC radio has reported very factually on a number of aspects of Israel’s reality: its nuclear weapons stockpile, and its mistreatment of Palestinians, for example. So Israel’s government declared that it was banning all cooperation with the BBC. And one Israeli official said that the BBC was like “the worst of Nazi propaganda.” Well, this is just incredible — if the BBC is like the worst of Nazi propaganda, what does that say? — both about the BBC and about what the press in the Third Reich was like during World War II. This is just tremendous overreach, tremendously out of balance here.

KAS: Well, maybe the French ambassador to Israel was correct… Israel is a paranoid country.

MW: Well, this may play well to Jews in the United States or in Israel. But for 98 per cent. of the people in the world, for people who can think on their own, this is just craziness, this is madness taken to a high degree. I mean, we live in a society where Jewish groups effectively insist on a Judeo-centric view of the world. And anything that deviates from that is punished. So countless films can be produced by Hollywood which are anti-Christian or anti-White or which denigrate any number of groups. But if one film comes out which portrays Jews in a less than favorable way, Jewish groups go berserk. Even one film is one too many as far as they’re concerned. This is just madness. The world can, in effect, choose between a view of the world dictated by groups like the ADL — or one in which there is freedom of expression and freedom of inquiry. That’s the kind of choice, increasingly, that the world has to face. And that’s manifest, right now, in the treatment of Ernst Zundel.

KAS: Isn’t this raw exercise of Jewish power, this overreaching as you describe it, going hand in hand with a considerable degree of drying up of support for the Jewish state around the world?

MW: Well, yes. One of the most important weapons that Jewish groups have used, and that the state of Israel has used, over the years to shore up its support is the whole ‘Holocaust’ campaign. That well of sympathy was used to build a big museum in Washington, and to set up an official U.S. government agency to require so-called ‘Holocaust studies’ in schools. A lot of mileage has been gotten out of that — so much so that they were able to shake down Switzerland, and banks, Germany, Austria, and other countries for billions and billions of dollars, which went to Israel and Jewish groups. But this well of guilt or good will or whatever you want to call it is just about running to its end, I think. Because the entire world is pretty strongly aware (though less so in our country) about the brutal occupation of Palestine, the oppression of the Palestinians, and Israel’s illegal occupation — for more than 20 years! — of parts of Syria. I mean, it’s just fantastic. The United States government, at the behest of Israel, is threatening Syria — even though Syria’s a country which has been a victim of Israel. It’s fantastic. It’s just a topsy-turvy world. But there are more and more voices speaking out against this. And I think something is really profoundly changing all over the world.

KAS: Yes, it seems to me that it’s only in the United States where we have an almost total thralldom to Jewish power among the citizenry. It seems to me that in Europe people are waking up from this false dream of collective guilt about the Jews during World War II.

MW: Something is changing. There’s no question of that. Just a few weeks ago, the longest-serving member of the British Parliament — his name is Tam Dalyell — said that the American government is controlled by a Jewish cabal which has gotten its hands on (and directs) American foreign policy. Now unlike some people in this country, who say something and then retract it immediately when the pressure gets too strong, he didn’t retract his statement. There are more and more open and unafraid voices in Europe — but not just in Europe. All over the world, more and more people are speaking out and acknowledging what is a fact of life. And the fact of life is the tremendous power that Jewish Zionist groups have in this country. And that they are able to dictate their will to our senators, our congressmen, the executive branch of our government, and so forth. Everybody should be ashamed to live under a government that is so corrupt that it puts the interests of a small alien minority above the interests of the American people and indeed of all humanity.

KAS: Mark, not only do I honor you for the work you’ve done for the Zundels, but I also deeply appreciate your long service to the cause of historical truth and the embodiment of that cause, the IHR. Can you tell us what’s going on at the Institute for Historical Review that our listeners ought to know about?

MW: This last Summer has been very difficult. Money is short. From talks I’ve had, it’s difficult around the country right now. But things are much better now than they were just a few weeks ago. We’re going to be able to hire one or two new persons soon.

KAS: Excellent.

MW: But we really need to get back on track. There have been some very bad setbacks in the last year, but things are looking a lot better now than they were just even a few weeks ago. But there’s so much that needs to be done and our resources are really very limited.

KAS: You recently did an interview with media in Iran — is that correct?

MW: I’ve done a number of interviews with the English language service of what’s called the IRIB, the shortwave radio service of Iran. It’s their equivalent of the Voice of America, you might say. And I did one this morning. I’ve done maybe dozens of them over the years, giving my comment on events as seen from our perspective here in the United States. Today the focus was on the American double standard seen in our government’s insistence that Iran not build any atomic reactors or develop any program that might be useful for nuclear weapons — while at the same time effectively sanctioning and permitting Israel to develop and stockpile a large nuclear capability. You know, Israel does not admit officially that it has nuclear weapons, but even Shimon Peres just recently acknowledged that Israel has this nuclear arsenal. It’s amazing. Israel has invaded other countries. At one time or another, it has invaded all of its neighbors. It still occupies portions of one of its neighbors, Syria. It’s a country that demands to live within what they call ‘secure borders’ — but they don’t tell you what those borders are. It’s a country with no constitution, which doesn’t even know what its own borders are, which operates under a kind of special martial law, and which justifies its existence on supposedly theocratic groups — that God, so they say, gave them this land. It’s inherently an unstable state. This, I think is obvious to more and more people. Again, this was the topic, this double standard of U.S. policy regarding nuclear weapons for Iran and Israel.

KAS: Were you able to get any interviews in American or European media?

MW: Yes, yes; many. Indeed, when the Zundel case broke, I was interviewed several times by Canadian national radio and even by Canadian national television, by quite a few newspapers in Canada. And I’ve done interviews with reporters for television and for radio and for print for a whole range of countries in Europe and in other continents as well.

KAS: How can our listeners and readers find our more about your work and the work of the IHR?

MW: The IHR is easy to get to. The Web site is http://www.ihr.org. It can also be found easily enough by clicking on to the National Alliance Web site, which has a link to our Web site as well.

KAS: How can our listeners and our readers who are not connected to the Internet contact you?

MW: Our postal address is:

IHR
PO Box 2739
Newport Beach CA 92659
USA

You can write to us and we’ll send you a packet of information, a catalogue and other material.

KAS: And finally, how can those who wish to do something, who wish to participate in this struggle for freedom of speech for Ernst Zundel and for all of us, do so?

MW: Well, there’s a couple of things. Ernst Zundel’s campaign needs money. That information is easily found at www.zundelsite.org. Ingrid Rimland is coordinating that. I urge everybody who has an interest in this case, which I think deserves our support, just contact the Zundelsite.

KAS: Mark, I want to thank you for everything you’ve done over the years and I want to thank you for returning again to American Dissident Voices.

MW: Thank you very much, Kevin, and good luck to you, and it’s a pleasure being on your program again.

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Source: National Alliance