White Will: Ondrej Mann’s Interview With Will Williams
Counter-Currents recently commissioned this interview with National Alliance Chairman William White Williams, conducted by Ondrej Mann.
Ondrej Mann: Will, I know you’re a well-known person in WN circles. But could you introduce yourself to our readers?
Will Williams: Being well-known is not necessarily a virtue. Well-known for what? Being a celebrity? There are many well-known actors, musicians, preachers, and politicians, but what exactly are they known for? How many well-known White celebrities have worked for the best long-term interests of our race? To be known in “WN circles” would mean death to their careers.
That this interview will appear on Counter-Currents might indicate that I am known for being a racial dissident. I am satisfied with that label. Forty years ago, I was only known locally — where I was raised, in Raleigh, North Carolina. I was known then as a designer and builder of custom homes, a developer of land, and as one who had volunteered in high school to serve in the U.S. Army rather than seek a deferment like so many of my classmates.
Rarely had I been interviewed for anything important, until I was tapped by the National Alliance Board of Directors to be Chairman of that organization. Rather than recap my life prior to that life-changing development, I’ll point any interested readers to the Alliance’s online magazine, National Vanguard (NV), where they can find an interview I did ten years ago for the UK periodical Heritage and Destiny: Will Williams: Taking the Hard Line. Other interviews, like this two-parter, can be listened to as audio programs, here: Forward Momentum: An Interview with Will Williams, part 1. I emphasized in that interview:
The National Alliance will not compromise its truth for money or popularity. The National Alliance will not compromise its goal of sustainable White living space under racially-conscious Cosmotheist control for any reason whatsoever. This has made us a target of well-funded Jewish lawfare groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center, despite our relatively small size.
My simple statement of opinion in part two of the “Forward Momentum” interview says everything about how I feel about our White preservation movement: “There is no cause more worthy, more noble, or more necessary than our cause.”
Ondrej Mann: I appreciate your work for the National Alliance (NA) and also your personal work in the construction industry.
Will Williams: Many people can construct buildings. However, building a movement to preserve and advance the White race — that’s not so easy. Designing and building houses and developing land 40 years ago has served me well in building the Alliance. It helps that National Alliance Founder William Luther Pierce left us such a sound foundation to build upon.
Ondrej Mann: I know you’re a painter. Do you paint mostly portraits? What famous people have you painted? Do you have a story about these portraits?
Will Williams: Around 1985 after a protracted fight with IRS goons, I gave up being a worker bee to work for our White Cause. Becoming an artist was a good cover for doing that, so that is what I decided to become. I’d always been able to draw likenesses, observing people’s faces, so besides painting representational still lifes and landscapes, I specialized in portraits and became pretty good the more I painted. Unfortunately, the more dedicated I became to the Cause the less time I had for painting, so I didn’t paint at all for about 15 years. Lately I’ve bought some brushes and paints, determined to find time to take up painting again. We have an excellent art center here in Johnson County where I’ve participated in a couple of drawing workshops. Like they say, it’s like riding a bicycle: One doesn’t forget how to paint even after not painting for years. I always enjoyed the creative burst that comes from creating a painting.
Here is a photo of a painting I’ve done recently that will be exhibited at our art center during the month of May.
It’s of a massive 300-plus-year-old White Oak here, the largest in Tennessee until we lost it during Hurricane Helene back in September. Note the Life Rune (symbol of the National Alliance) by the date of its “birth” and the Death Rune (the so-called “peace symbol”) by the date it finally blew over, or “died.” I get to explain to my neighbors the significance of those runic symbols — a White thing — that are found on Scandinavian headstones. See: The Life Rune, Its History and Significance at whitebiocentrism.com. There are numerous stories of how I was able to use art for the Cause, in one way or another — too many to list here.
Ondrej Mann: What have been the biggest problems and challenges you have faced in your life?
Will Williams: Surviving two combat tours in Vietnam as a young Green Beret infantryman in the late 1960s was a challenging experience.
Powerful organized Jewry’s vow, and ongoing efforts, to destroy the National Alliance are always challenging, and with the controlled media and the corrupted justice system in their corner, it is not a symmetrical fight. My book Pocahontas Show Trial explains much of that struggle. It’s essentially our truths vs. their lies.
Surviving the Chinese virus and the ventilator three years ago certainly was challenging. Since then I’ve been diagnosed with pneumonia and pulmonary fibrosis, so have been forced to slow down, delegate more, and pace myself. Such are life’s challenges once one reaches his 70s.
Ondrej Mann: Is it possible you’ll die of pneumonia, pulmonary fibrosis?
Will Williams: We’re all mortal and will die from something, so, yes, that’s a possibility. I’ve lived a full, satisfying life and have tried to make every day count for our Cause, with few regrets, for at least the last nearly 40 years.
Ondrej Mann: What’s your strongest memory of William Luther Pierce?
Will Williams: I never heard Dr. Pierce lie, or even exaggerate about anything, so his truthfulness is what attracted me to him. That is memorable to me when comparing him to other leaders of our race. Other virtues of his personality are better articulated by his biographer Dr. Robert Griffin, who wrote as follows in William Pierce: A Reminiscence on National Vanguard:
Of course there was his intelligence. Simply, he was the brightest person I’ve ever been around… And there was his character. I found him to be a man of great integrity; there was the tightest fit imaginable between what he most deeply believed and the way he conducted his life. He had enormous commitment and dedication and perseverance. Day after day, year after year, decade after decade, he marched on. And he had courage. He put himself on the line. He went public; he used his own name. And he was incredibly hard working…
Griffin went on to say:
Dr. Pierce could be very shy and reticent… He was very sensitive… And last, he was joyful. Dr. Pierce loved life. He was light and cheerful… I won’t be silent or controlled by fear, not now, not after knowing him. I seek to live with the courage he demonstrated. I want, in my own unique way, to live as he lived, as an honorable White man. Dr. Pierce was an honorable White man.
I do not participate in Internet social media, unless commenting at Counter-Currents counts as a social medium. An outfit called Who’s Who in America interviewed me recently, telling me that what’s below, featuring me as a publisher and corporate chairman, was widely spread over social media by them. We’ll see. It’s not about me but what I do for our Cause.
As Chairman of the 50-year-old not-for-profit educational organization, National Alliance, Inc. (NA), since 2014, Will Williams has dedicated his career to serving kinsmen through his unselfish educational endeavors.
NA Chairman Will is Trustee of the Cosmotheist Community Church (CCC), launched also by NA Founder Dr. William L. Pierce in the 1970s. Will is President of cosmotheistchurch.org, the Alliance’s publishing arm that publishes and sells what some describe as “dissident” educational titles and CDs at its online bookstore. Will and his wife of 21 years, Svetlana, co-authored Will’s semi-biographical book Pocahontas Show Trial: the Wrongful Conviction of an “Unpopular Figure” in West Virginia, available at its online bookstore at cosmotheistchurch.org.
Will recently published Cosmotheism: Religion of the Future by William Pierce that explains Dr. Pierce’s and NA’s unique philosophical worldview.
“What is the National Alliance?” at natall.com provides a nutshell explanation of the organization’s ideology and goals. NA’s popular online magazine nationalvanguard.org, its weekly radio show launched in 1991, American Dissident Voices; its video channel, forum and its other online sites can be followed from natall.com. Among his duties Will writes, and mails First Class, NA’s monthly BULLETIN to its members and supporters, as well as overseeing the real-world community at NA’s National Office in Johnson County, Tennessee.
Ondrej Mann: What motivates you the most for your activities?
Will Williams: Beyond spreading the same difficult racial truths that NA Founder Dr. William Pierce declared and published over his adult life, my activities are primarily focused on Alliance-building. That motivates me. NA is an exclusive membership organization, so recruiting new members and supporters and motivating current members to do the same drives me. Our recruiting booklet What is the National Alliance?, that can be read online, explains our beliefs, program and goals for those who may be interested in joining our noble cause.
Promoting and expanding Dr. Pierce’s unique worldview, Cosmotheism, and our Cosmotheist Community here in Upper East Tennessee, that includes NA’s National Office, is another focus of mine. Cosmotheism, more so than NA, will be Dr. Pierce’s lasting legacy. Again, rather than explaining what Cosmotheism is in this brief interview, readers can put ‘cosmotheism’ in the nationalvanguard.org search block and dozens of articles will come up, including one of my favorites by its founder from nearly 50 years ago: Cosmotheism: Wave of the Future.
Dr. Pierce did not “invent” Cosmotheism, but as a scientist, a physicist, he adapted it as a form of Pantheism for our race as the logical alternative belief system to Semitic Christianity, saying in a speech 50 years ago:
In the 18th and 19th centuries there was an enormous outpouring of Cosmotheist feeling. Cosmotheism, or at least one aspect of Cosmotheism, was the underlying idea of the entire Romantic movement in art and literature, from Alexander Pope to Joseph Turner and William Wordsworth. And Cosmotheism is the underlying idea of 20th century science. Today, more and more thinkers, scientific thinkers in particular, are coming to understand that fact and also to give explicit expression to that understanding. I pointed out to you in earlier meetings some of the specifically Cosmotheist statements of some of the medieval thinkers and also some of the more modern philosophers: Hegel, Fichte, and others. The more one looks into the matter, the clearer becomes this Cosmotheist thread running through the spiritual and intellectual history of our race. Every week I run across more and more examples… I quote just a part of a longer statement by [novelist] D.H. Lawrence: ‘We and the cosmos are one. The cosmos is a vast living body, of which we are still parts. The sun is a great heart whose tremors run through our smallest veins. The moon is a great gleaming nerve-center from which we quiver forever… Now all this is literally true, as men knew in the great past, and as they will know again.’
Ondrej Mann: Has NA faced brutal bullying?
Will Williams: Bullying? No. We put up with a lot from our racial enemies — even from White Christians because we don’t embrace their Jesus as our personal savior, or from some others who style themselves “White nationalists” who disagree with our vanguard leadership approach. I wouldn’t consider any of that to be bullying. It’s all part of our racial struggle.
Ondrej Mann: How is it possible that Richard Butler’s Aryan Nations and Tom Metzger’s White Aryan Resistance (W.A.R.) were cancelled and expropriated while NA was still strong?
They were not as careful, and so were more vulnerable. Both were destroyed by multi-million-dollar “vicarious liability” judgments brought against them by the Jewish hate group, the Southern Poverty Law Center. That same Jewish “law center” sued the Alliance similarly back in the early 1990s, but Dr. Pierce successfully fought them off. See this and similar essays: William Pierce on Lawyers and the SPLC. The $70 million tax-exempt SPLC war chest used to destroy pro-White groups, that’s cited there, is now more than ten times that amount.
Ondrej Mann: How was it working with Tom Metzger? Do you have any personal memories of him?
Will Williams: I first met Tom in 1986, five years before I finally got to meet Dr. Pierce. I was putting Tom’s Cable Access TV show (Race and Reason) on my local cable access television channel in Raleigh. I brought Tom and his son John to Raleigh to speak at a rally I’d organized, and soon after that he introduced me to Ben Klassen, who I went to work with in 1988-89. Ben had founded Creativity, another non-Semitic religion for Whites. I learned much from Ben. I have many fond memories of Tom, especially when I flew him to Cleveland to meet with Dr. Pierce and 90 or so Alliance members, and my friend Tom Chittum, author of Civil War II: the Coming Breakup of America. Mr. Metzger and I roomed together there and I still remember hours of radical back-and-forth discussions with the two Toms.
Ondrej Mann: Hopefully, this interview will dispel some of the lies and rumors about the National Alliance. Why did the National Alliance go under after Pierce’s death? Pierce gave his followers a rich and brilliant organization, and after his death it was impossible to even publish a book about his life, The Fame of a Dead Man’s Deeds.
Will Williams: Not so. NA did not go entirely “under” after Pierce’s death, but nearly did, It has been resurrected and brought back to life since I was named Chairman in 2014, with long-time NA member Kevin Strom as our Media Director. Dr. Pierce’s biography was published prior to Pierce’s death and is available at our cosmotheistchurch.org bookstore: The Fame of a Dead Man’s Deeds by Robert S. Griffin.
I must say, Ondrej, some of the questions you have asked me reveal malicious lies and rumors that have been spread about our organization. Rather than skip them, let’s address a few. When you refer to The Land, that is the West Virginia mountain property that Dr. Pierce purchased in 1985 when he relocated NA headquarters from the multiracial miasma surrounding Arlington, Virginia.
Ondrej Mann: Have you experienced anything interesting at The Land? How was a typical day there?
Will Williams: There are too many interesting things to mention in this interview. My book, Pocahontas Show Trial recounts many of them. Typical day: work, work, work — 10-hour days, frequently more, six days a week.
Ondrej Mann: Could you introduce that book to the readers? Did you write other books?
Will Williams: I have shipped you a copy. It’s available at our bookstore section at cosmotheistchurch.org for $20. No, no other books. No time for that. I was determined to tell my side of the ordeal I and the NA experienced with the justice system, and did. It’s instructive for other racial activists. Interestingly, the photograph of me on the cover was taken from a distance by a professional SPLC photographer with his telephoto lens.
Ondrej Mann: NA released the comic book The Saga of White Will. Was the main character of this comic inspired by you? Was this comic supposed to have more sequels? Do you have any personal memories of this comic?
Will Williams: I wouldn’t say inspired by me but I used the nom de guerre White Will for a while since my middle name is White, a family name, and Dr. Pierce liked it. We republished the Saga comic with the White hero recently but have never produced a sequel. Yes, I have many memories of that revolutionary comic, for which I was the colorist, back in 1993.
Ondrej Mann: Did you see the founding of The Land as a step backwards at the time?
Will Williams: Not at all. Dr. Pierce made the right move, getting the Hell out of the degenerate D.C. area. The history of the move is well-documented for anyone who cares to look into it — but at National Vanguard, not from Jewish sources.
Ondrej Mann: Before relocating to The Land, the National Alliance operated more in cities and was more visible.
Will Williams: The Alliance sanctioned, organized and operated more viable Local Units in cities that were much more “visible” after the move to West Virginia than before. Details of that growth during the 1990s are in the cited interviews and in my book.
Ondrej Mann: Like I said, hopefully, this interview will dispel some of the lies and rumors about the National Alliance. Question about corpses: How did corpses on The Land affect you? Did it affect you, for example, like the Egyptian mummies in the pyramids or Lenin’s Mausoleum in Moscow? What were the famous figures of White nationalism mummified there? What happened to the dead bodies afterwards?
Will Williams: That is the most absurd rumor I’ve heard yet. No corpses, no dead bodies.
Ondrej Mann: Earlier I read that at The Land’s headquarters there in WV was a room called Valhalla and there were mummified bodies of famous White nationalists – David Lane, Savitri Devi, and others. Isn’t it true?
Will Williams: No. More BS. There was never concertina wire surrounding The Land, nor armed guard towers, nor secret escape tunnels, nor mummies. Those and other silly lies and rumors were spread by our enemies to scare people.
Ondrej Mann: I’ve also read that Pierce wanted to eventually build a temple for these fallen warriors of White nationalism, much like Hitler had a temple for the Blutzeugen (Martyrs of the Blood) in Germany or like Aleister Crowley had a list of modern day holy men of Thelema.
Will Williams: You read that somewhere, eh? I never heard that one. More BS.
Ondrej Mann: How did The Land come to an end? What was the further history of this place?
The National Alliance still owns 86 acres of the West Virginia land and we have members living there. We sold the back portion that was undeveloped, timbered, and of little value to us, to a neighbor. The proceeds from that sale seven years ago went to purchase the 55-acre parcel the Alliance now has, free and clear, as its new National Office in Upper East Tennessee. The Land has not “come to an end.” It has three residences, four 2-story buildings, a motor pool, roads, septic systems, wells, and is wired for phones and computers — a valuable property with Dr. Pierce’s legacy.
Ondrej Mann: Is the NA currently undergoing restoration?
Will Williams: Like I said, the NationalI Alliance has been restored and has been expanded.
Ondrej Mann: What are the current projects of the NA?
Will Williams: Building the large, private 2-story William Luther Pierce Memorial Library and Research Center on the Alliance’s property in Johnson County, Tennessee, is a major project for which we finally have sufficient funds and will begin construction soon. The adjacent, large, 2-story library warehouse has already been constructed. With Dr. Pierce’s large personal research collection, which has been combined with other excellent collections that have been trusted to us, the Alliance has nearly 30,000 books, some quite rare. Publication and sale of dissident titles has been an ongoing project for years at our online bookstore: cosmotheistchurch.org/shop
Ondrej Mann: What does NA have to offer to young White people? Which NA books do you consider the most important?
To combine and answer both of those questions, our Alliance tries to educate Whites, young and old, about vital truths to better understand the problems that our people face and give them hope for the future.
The Alliance’s most important books? That’s like asking a parent which of his children is “most important” to him. However, the most important could be our Cosmotheism: Religion of the Future: https://cosmotheistchurch.org/product/cosmotheism-religion-of-the-future-by-william-pierce/.
William Pierce’s first novel, The Turner Diaries, has proved its importance. Our enemies like to harp on Dr. Pierce’s novel as being the “most dangerous book in America.” Why? When I recently received the following from a young Alliance member it confirmed why Jews fear the 50-year-old novel and want to see it banned;
The Turner Diaries is much more than a fiction book. It sets guidelines for the effective mindset for all those who want to gain real independence. The special achievement of Dr. Pierce is that he had completely broken the mental chains of American conservatism. He rejected this stupid allegiance to the “flag and constitution.” He charted a completely new path for the state based entirely on racial identity. The official state borders and citizenship mean nothing; racial identity means everything. This revolutionary approach was totally incomprehensible for conservative blockheads but fascinated the best part of the worldwide NS movement. The new worldview formulated by Dr. Pierce relates to traditional conservatism in the same way as differential calculus relates to primary school arithmetic.
I should mention the controversial Hollywood movie, The Order, that was released in late 2024. I have mentioned it on Counter-Currents a few times but there was little interest in it for some reason. There should be, but I won’t go into that in this interview. Those who are interested in the extent of how crooked Hollywood is in portraying idealistic White freedom fighters can simply place ‘the order’ in the search block at National Vanguard and read all about it, including the 4-part series on American Dissident Voices, beginning with The Order 2024, part 1.
Ondrej Mann: Thank you for your answers.
Will Williams: Thank you, Ondrej, for this opportunity to explain a few things about my work for the Cause.
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Source: Counter-Currents
